You ain't gotta go to church to get to know yo' God
I kinda felt after the last post that i had fully vented my spleen on the subject of religion, and planned to stay away from it for a long time. Then I read a piece entitled "When Atheists and Secularists Quote Scipture" on a conservative blog called Hot Air. Plan immediately aborted. The entry was thoughtful, well written, and thorougly researched. I have to admit that it succeeded in changing (by a few degrees anyway) my view of the conflict between islamic fundamentalism and the entire western world. You should definitely read it for yourself but I will sum it up in the following two paragraphs (with apologies for any violence that i might be doing to the subtlties of his take on the subject) :
Those Muslims whom the the majority of Americans might dismiss as extremists ,the ones who believe in the spread of Islamic values by way of suicide bomb, are not operating under a misunderstanding of their religion. They are not an insane fringe group of selectively reading from scripture to justify their madness. They are not the unwilling, or unwitting, dupes of the Khalifah of the moment. Those of Allah's followers who are actively practicing jihad against the West may not be a majority, but they are fully supported in ther actions by The Quran, no right reading of which can simply discount the numerous exhortations to violence against non believers.
Furthermore, Western apologists who in the name of tolerance or correctness draw parallels between the licence to kill provided in the Quran, and the violence against the pagans that The Lord demanded of his followers in the Old Testament betray their lack of understanding of both religions . Leviticus is a historical scripture, not an active one. It's permissions and restrictions are essentially overwritten (or abrogated) by the more recent New Testament. Christ's passion "fulfills" all preceding law, and his teachings offer absolutely no basis for violence against non-believers. The trend of the abrogation in the Quran, however, is precisely the opposite. Early suras on meeting the irreligious with tolerance are undone by later more forceful suras demanding conversion by the sword.
The writer admits he is not a theologian, and I'm definitely not one either, but there are some points here that deserve to be questioned. For one, the idea of abrogation in scripture is a useful tool if you are studying a faith in the abstract, but I dont believe it really applies to the way the faithful read scripture. Most Christians would say that they take the Holy Bible as one document given to men by God, in which all claims and demands are equally valid, and all apparent contradictions result from the imperfect understanding of men. In considering the question of whether the Pentauch still animates Christians it should be noted that you have probably never heard anyone argue for posting Matthew 5:40 or Luke 6:37 on a courthouse wall, but there is a great hue and cry for municipal display of the (presumably voided) Ten Commandments.
I would agree that it is not the Holy Bible that has moved Christians in the past to burn women as witches, or which moves them today to bash gays as blasphemers. But "God's word" has certainly offered a philosophical skeleton to support those atrocious impulses ,and it has provided great moral cover for those and similar acts ex post facto. Rape, slavery, genocide... All of these are denounced in some part of national scripture, and then endorsed in another. It is, in part, this historically "accomodating" quality of Christianity that has allowed it to flourish. Whether you've just been conquered and disposessed by your enemies, or you're chaining up their virgins for the long ride home, The Bible has a verse that proves you are standing on the right side of Heaven and History.
While it is possible that muslims really are the Children of Pricklier God, to assume that Islamic hatred for America has arisen sola scriptura seems a little daft. Bin Laden may be living in a cave right now, but he wasnt born in one. He comes from a wealthy, worldly family many of whom are alot more learned than I am. (and most of whom have more land holdings and political access in America than I ever will.) Gadafi went to military school in England for a year. Saddam Hussein was once "western" enough to be accorded a key to the city of Detroit. I dont doubt that there is a significant Islamic laity that takes the whole "Great Satan" buisness without any salt at all. But I'm also sure that if our government switched sides tommorrow in the fight for the holy land, and we changed nothing else about ourselves , we would have little more to fear from Jihadists.
It was the biblical Sarah's political gambit to have her son inherit over his elder half-brother Ishmael that gave birth to Islam. If Peter had been able to keep his delegates in line at the Council of Jerusalem, Paul's new Gentile converts would have been subjected to mosaic law in all its rigor, and Christianty might have died quietly in committee. It was ever thus...Faith following Politics. Every scripture is intended as a roadmap to Grace, and they are subject to continuous redaction and reinterpretation, to better reflect to the changing social and political topography of this world.
Those Muslims whom the the majority of Americans might dismiss as extremists ,the ones who believe in the spread of Islamic values by way of suicide bomb, are not operating under a misunderstanding of their religion. They are not an insane fringe group of selectively reading from scripture to justify their madness. They are not the unwilling, or unwitting, dupes of the Khalifah of the moment. Those of Allah's followers who are actively practicing jihad against the West may not be a majority, but they are fully supported in ther actions by The Quran, no right reading of which can simply discount the numerous exhortations to violence against non believers.
Furthermore, Western apologists who in the name of tolerance or correctness draw parallels between the licence to kill provided in the Quran, and the violence against the pagans that The Lord demanded of his followers in the Old Testament betray their lack of understanding of both religions . Leviticus is a historical scripture, not an active one. It's permissions and restrictions are essentially overwritten (or abrogated) by the more recent New Testament. Christ's passion "fulfills" all preceding law, and his teachings offer absolutely no basis for violence against non-believers. The trend of the abrogation in the Quran, however, is precisely the opposite. Early suras on meeting the irreligious with tolerance are undone by later more forceful suras demanding conversion by the sword.
The writer admits he is not a theologian, and I'm definitely not one either, but there are some points here that deserve to be questioned. For one, the idea of abrogation in scripture is a useful tool if you are studying a faith in the abstract, but I dont believe it really applies to the way the faithful read scripture. Most Christians would say that they take the Holy Bible as one document given to men by God, in which all claims and demands are equally valid, and all apparent contradictions result from the imperfect understanding of men. In considering the question of whether the Pentauch still animates Christians it should be noted that you have probably never heard anyone argue for posting Matthew 5:40 or Luke 6:37 on a courthouse wall, but there is a great hue and cry for municipal display of the (presumably voided) Ten Commandments.
I would agree that it is not the Holy Bible that has moved Christians in the past to burn women as witches, or which moves them today to bash gays as blasphemers. But "God's word" has certainly offered a philosophical skeleton to support those atrocious impulses ,and it has provided great moral cover for those and similar acts ex post facto. Rape, slavery, genocide... All of these are denounced in some part of national scripture, and then endorsed in another. It is, in part, this historically "accomodating" quality of Christianity that has allowed it to flourish. Whether you've just been conquered and disposessed by your enemies, or you're chaining up their virgins for the long ride home, The Bible has a verse that proves you are standing on the right side of Heaven and History.
While it is possible that muslims really are the Children of Pricklier God, to assume that Islamic hatred for America has arisen sola scriptura seems a little daft. Bin Laden may be living in a cave right now, but he wasnt born in one. He comes from a wealthy, worldly family many of whom are alot more learned than I am. (and most of whom have more land holdings and political access in America than I ever will.) Gadafi went to military school in England for a year. Saddam Hussein was once "western" enough to be accorded a key to the city of Detroit. I dont doubt that there is a significant Islamic laity that takes the whole "Great Satan" buisness without any salt at all. But I'm also sure that if our government switched sides tommorrow in the fight for the holy land, and we changed nothing else about ourselves , we would have little more to fear from Jihadists.
It was the biblical Sarah's political gambit to have her son inherit over his elder half-brother Ishmael that gave birth to Islam. If Peter had been able to keep his delegates in line at the Council of Jerusalem, Paul's new Gentile converts would have been subjected to mosaic law in all its rigor, and Christianty might have died quietly in committee. It was ever thus...Faith following Politics. Every scripture is intended as a roadmap to Grace, and they are subject to continuous redaction and reinterpretation, to better reflect to the changing social and political topography of this world.
posted by jayjay23 at 6:36 PM
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